(Shadowfinder) Greetings fellow brothers of the night! Welcome to THIEF CON! The format of this conference will be FORMAL. Should you wish to ask a question, type ?? To make a comment on a subject, type !! and I will attempt to call on you as soon as possible. I will attempt to reply to each comment BEFORE another question is asked Conference Attendance: Num. User ID Name ---- ------------- ------------------- 1 73760,3507 devilwarrior 2 71521,2165 Paragon 3 73007,1572 Jelerak 4 76615,2411 Confucius 5 71336,1747 Rad..tag/IoK SL (as the scribe) 6 73467,3023 yoshi 7 73775,1111 Thorndike 8 73250,2420 Daemon..slayer 9 74010,3067 Duncan 10 74270,3203 Sundown 11 73177,3120 Shadowfinder (Moderator/host) 12 76220,37 Mythral 13 72017,2727 Moreena 14 73717,541 Balakan 15 72561,2640 Amanda..Morgan 16 71331,775 Madelaine 17 73467,1205 Kheldar 18 72500,3257 YouvebeenSLAIN 19 71560,621 Nocha De'Leslie 20 71210,2056 Moonbeam...sir 21 72247,3644 Babato 22 73477,3722 Houdini 23 76566,3164 Zokar 24 73347,1223 Dark.wulf 25 73165,1121 ARCTICUS 26 72070,2046 Daystar 27 76356,1427 Felonious.monk 28 73230,3623 Niuhc.. 29 76703,1066 Fledge (Kesmai Corp.) 30 70611,1224 Bertrand 31 72047,3167 Randall Wakely 32 76702,373 Valaryia 33 71641,3256 Smitty 34 76136,3313 Ulrig 35 73016,2171 Pippin 36 73500,47 Lucienne..bard 37 72371,3632 Fanewgi.wulf 38 70701,115 dgc...bh 39 72200,445 Silly 40 71041,3317 Blood.....spot 41 72701,3614 Kanador 42 73210,2277 Brigantin 43 73707,2626 Nevyn.....wind (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay, First I will open the floor for OPENING comments this should just be basic and BRIEF opinions of the class Please go ahead moreena (6-23,Moreena) "Thief" can mean a number of things: 1. a pickpocket or street thief, 2. a burglar or safecracker, 3. a mugger or strong-arm robber, 4. a ninja or assassin. In the basic game, anyway, only the last seems very descriptive. "Thieves" are people who attack by stealth and surprise. But thief characters should have a variety of roles available, from streetwise punk to Robin Hood to gentleman jewel thief. This could be done by including more challenges for thieves: safes to crack, alarms to avoid or disarm, Lawful guards who can't be attacked, Evil npcs who can be fooled by the thief's disguise. This would make the thief class more interesting to play. Spending 15 minutes of repetitive shooting to kill some minotaur is not my idea of fun! (6-34,Babato) Well, I think thieves are fun in Bg but not as much so in Ag done (6-21,Mythral) where can we find locks to pick and relock... to get thieving skill..ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay, ill take a stab at this one You can usually go to AXE glacier in the BG dump some coins on the counter, train and sit and unlock the door over and over and over to go from 8th to 9th skill level it takes 30 picks a setp, to go from 9th to 10th it takes 60 unlocks a step and to go from 10th to 11th it takes 120 unlocks a step. (6-21,Mythral) u can unlock a locked door?? er unlocked (6-19,Shadowfinder) yes you can mythral, you can PICK it with a pick in hand, use the UNLOCK WEST DOOR (6-4,Jelerak) dont forget to BUY training with the LOCKPICK in right hand (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay yoshi, go ahead with your question then I want to get back to a small outline (6-12,yoshi) ques on ethics of stealing from fellow pcs... i had someone ... steal from me so i kilt him and got a karma hit... what is the protocol for that situation ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) sheesh okay moreena, please comment (6-23,Moreena) I think thieves could use a code of ethics. . . Sorcerers got eliminated from the game. . . because they were too much of a nuisance for the other players. thieves should try to make themselves popular and not a nuisance. ga. (6-19,Shadowfinder) Hmmm (fighting urge to make a speech) okay babato, you have the floor (6-34,Babato) Thank You Yoshi ... First thing to do, is to write KC I think they keep records of these things and this could help them at a later date if someone he caught stealing several times, and then causing karma hits, that person could be removed from the game or moved to the Advanced game GA (6-19,Shadowfinder) yoshi, you want to continue? (6-12,yoshi) had a line hit was that foor me (6-19,Shadowfinder) yes yoshi, you had a comment? (6-12,yoshi) just i dont think this guy was a true thief since i got a karma ... and 99.99999% of thieves have been handy to have with me ga and thanks (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay, yes, he was probably a lawful pretending to be a thief (6-29,YouvebeenSLAIN) He couldn't have been a true thief since you received a karma hit. Also, when a nonthief tries to steal and is caught he will set your SD flag. So you should have not received a karma hit in that case eitehr. NOt sure why you received it unless he only pretend to steal from you (6-12,yoshi) didnt notice a sd flag at time (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay Nocha, please comment (6-30,Nocha De'Leslie) ok couple things... first, sorcs weren't removed from the game, they never were in... though if they had planned it, I think I did a good... of disuading Kesmai ... as for the code of ethics... most thieves keep to themselves, there is really little... to be gained from stealing from other players.... because eventually you start getting hunted... most of the 'real' theives are either new... or are people trying to trick you into losing a karma point... so I usually go carefully when someone steals from me... and make sure that something bad isn't going to happen GA (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay. It looks like its the big JELERAK's turn (6-4,Jelerak) the fake steal ploy is one that irritates real thief types never attack a lawful fighter unless your SD flag is set and NEVER use a returning axe or hammer you can get multiple karma points when your hammer blows up killing the ringseller, etc if someone stands in you hex and fakes a steal do the following.... take all you coins out of your sack and hold them in your hand this frustrates the hell out of them and then they usually attack you (6-19,Shadowfinder) YES!!! My FAVORITE trick (sorry) (6-21,Mythral) how do u fake a steal?? (6-4,Jelerak) and you can kill the low lifes (6-4,Jelerak) ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) sorry to interupt you there jel.. Okay Felonius.. you had a comment noble Monk? (6-20,Felonious.monk) one comment... (6-20,Felonious.monk) there WERE sorcerers in the game for a short while... (6-30,Nocha De'Leslie) (Morgana, she was enough ) (6-20,Felonious.monk) A knightly friend of mine ran into one one in Leng once... His name was Sekmet.... He kept chanting and the knight kept... RHammering...the rest is history(heheh) (6-34,Babato) Ok, 2 comments 1 is, I think one of Morph's chars was a Sorc ok, and 2, I know some of the chars, the newer chars that come into the game think that a thief means steal (6-4,Jelerak) morph ran a lawful sorceror once (6-34,Babato) So, I think the best thing to do is to page the person and talk to them rather than kill (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay crafty KHELDAR, please comment (6-28,Kheldar) re: code of conduct; why should it be dif from anyone else? one should act as if his conduct proceeds from good will,... and an acute sense of propriety, of course the interpretation.. is left to the indiv, and if he gets it wrong, others will correct. done. (6-19,Shadowfinder) I would like to move into some of the issues facing us all as thiefs. Including some tips that we have to use.. First, I would like some comments of FIGHTING STYLES. this includes how you view the thief *SHOULD* be in COMBAT and how you are using him CURRENTLY in combat. On fighting styles. Okay, currently I am using the NIGHTVISION and then DARKNESS then attacking critters. Let me allow the BRETHREN to comment here. (6-35,Houdini) Ok... I use Ydmos' scythe, which is sort of dangerous cause I have to... be evil, but it is a fantastic weapon. ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay NOCHA please comment (6-30,Nocha De'Leslie) ok... one trick I like to pass on is for situations... when you need to hide, but there is nothing to hide next too... you can hide next to darkness, which can be convienient... second, as for combat, I just use the Masamune ... Morph designed the thing for theves GA (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay YOU HAVE BEEN SLAIN. tell us how you do your (6-19,Shadowfinder) slaying! (6-29,YouvebeenSLAIN) Ok... As I'm sure everyone has here, the nightvision and darkness is very effective, especially for those using the AG katanas I'd like to see a few changes though that would make the thieve's hide spell more realistic, i.e. less blocks for crossbow and dagger hits. It seems to me, that the monsters know exactly when they are going to be shot at by an invisible target Also, perhaps somethin to recreate the concept of backstabbing, i.e. extreme critical hits from properly placed hits. all for now, ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) okay felonious monk. you are up and on stage (6-20,Felonious.monk) ok... in the BG first... NV ...dk using the katana... the new ver made me add a shield ring and take off a str+6 ring... the armor isint as effective any more... in the AG... the NAG is a good weapon to carry while you're hunting the menuki(g) the maul is a surprisingly good weapon... even with lousy mace skills... it hits hard all on its own(g) I use hide with +4 xbow now in AG much more. done (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay, thanx for that series of combat hints Felon... Now we move on to Miss Amanda Morgan Please share your wisdom with us (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) ooooohhh grin, my comment is just about the types of critters to kill to me as a bg thief,, I ignore the mino's and trolls and concentrate on the wraiths and magic using npc's and spectre's etc since the are alot more easily killed and give you the most exp pearls of widom done!! ga (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay, thanx amanda. Mr. Moonbeam? You commented? (6-31,Moonbeam...sir) Aye,i usually hunt with a couple animal friends n my sack Especially against ag npcs or big trolls.. they seem to weaken but rarely make the kill. A good crossbow bolt,or dagger,will get you the kill,with the animals taking away most of that 15 minutes of combat hehe thats figurines,... for folks who didnt make the connection (6-19,Shadowfinder) Okay, nocha, you had a comment? (6-30,Nocha De'Leslie) ok.... I do have one more trick to pass on... some (like me) like to take the archer and caster types... hand to hand... a good trick to try is to hide and jump on them... once they see you, htey will run 2 spaces to get away... and can't see you there, so they come back to find you... this produces a yoyo effect that allows you to kill them pretty easy (6-29,YouvebeenSLAIN) ! (6-7,Shadowfinder..cure) okay jel.. valiant fighter and fellow KNIGHT VISIONER (6-4,Jelerak) in ag play, i use the +5 throwing daggers as my primary weapon in a group or after hide is down i use big katana those dagger are very effective and they are sold for 150 gps in annwn thief guild shop i find half a sack of daggers and half a sack of balm in best by being careful you never use the balm at all (6-7,Shadowfinder..cure) i must say you are quite versed at that great Jelerak.. I must admit i would like to see the +4 crossbow made silver and magical and bumped down to the BG though (6-4,Jelerak) my bg thief is just too strange to explain (6-7,Shadowfinder..cure) Anyway babato, your up (6-34,Babato) Ok My person way of fighting is to use a katana to get them badly wounded or running and then get them running with a crossbow Or course, this is with higher lvl critters I run around and pick of hobgobs and gars and orc and... things like that with my crossbow Also, I agree with whoever said the backstab idea Thieves need special attacks, such as backstab and breakneck or snapneck (6-7,Shadowfinder) Agreed, Okay, we are up with that hider of rings.. KHELDAR (6-28,Kheldar) I am *NOT* currently happy with the current weapons and training route available and prefer to let others get the crits to near death and use the HIDE as.. prime to get what I need so I would like to hear Fledge's comments on future of thieves if any. done (6-7,Shadowfinder) haha, im sure Fledge will have to give us the PARTY LINE on that one.. "We cant discuss.." but I will allow him the oportunity if he desires. (6-37,Fledge) he hehe , i'm just listening just keep talking done. (6-7,Shadowfinder) Okay then.. we move on to YOSHI! (6-12,yoshi) just noticed that lot of u seem to use 2 weapons have u found difficulty.. keeping skill up with new system ga (6-7,Shadowfinder) Not really, you can only dedicate to one weapon though if you try to keep MAGIC AND THIEVERY skill also yoshi. I have found dissapointly after an evening of casting and fighting my thievery skill is lost, and after an evening of casting and stealing my fighting skill is loss. Three skills is a bit much to maintain and try to advance. And i have complained. believe me.. (grin) now we move on to LUCIENNE (6-3,Lucienne..bard) well, your answer to Yoshi pretty much covered my question, since I was going to ask how you can keep up skill in any weapon if you have to build thievery and magic... However, I did want to comment on the backstab suggestion It is a nice idea, but since it is completely impossible to move into the critter's hex without being seen, there doesn't seem to be a way to backstab it... Also, do certain crits (like dragons and sharks) have definable "backs"? (6-7,Shadowfinder) okay. First of all, let me comment on this. With the new skill system, I would like to see the ABSOLUTES taken out of the game, IE. I dont think when you are two away you should ABSOLUTELY be seen. and when you are wielding a large weapon i dont think you should be ABSOLUTELY seen. I think these should all me modifiers to the odds of SEEING the thief.. That way it gives you a REASON to ADVANCE your magic skill. (for example wielding a large weapon could be a -5 level penalty or something like that) and standing two away could be a hide at -3 or soemthing to that effect. (6-20,Felonious.monk) 2 comments... you can keep up thievery skills by... using steal from XXX when the crit is ND and no longer hitting as hard... second... a great way to get a bunch of magic skill FAST is... go to a favored recall place and.... turn that pile of gold rings into SKILL!(G). done. (6-7,Shadowfinder) haha. Okay felonious. I agree, another good way to get thieving skill (looking around to make sure no one is looking (shut your eyes fledge) is to KILL CRITTERS who are ND with your lockpick. It apparently is treated as a weapon and it gives you very nice skill bonuses okay, FAIR AMANDA of morgan. it is your turn at bat (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) just 2 comments. before with all due respect to thieves with good thieving skill in bg but how much is there to do with thieveing skill in bg?? also on backstabbing since it is much easier to STEAL from someone if you are hiding while in same hex it should be much easier to backstab if you are in same hex (6-7,Shadowfinder) Well, i personally have never found it EASY TO STEAL since the new skill system went up. But then again, that is another story all together.. Which i will reserve comments on till later. Okay, moonbeam, its your time to shine (ug, sorry) (6-31,Moonbeam...sir) Alright,earlier ya spoke of hide being modified. I like that idea..the further away from the thing, a bonus.the closer,a penalty. And even hiding,in its hex is possible,or should be. Maybe the room descriptions can be put into play, with shadow %'s and the like a dark cave would be quite simple to hide in.. then backstab could be employed. And the two critters lvls could also be compared, to see if he sees through the guise. ga (6-7,Shadowfinder) well, its my impression that the hide fixes have been taken under consideration moonbeam. I would like to see hide be less absolute anyway. (6-34,Babato) Ok Couple things One way to make lots of $$ and skill is to gather up as many gold rings as u can go to ring seller, kill him, and sell recall rings for 1k I've never done it As for backstab 1 hex is 10 feet by 10 feet that is alot of space I think a thief could hide, and attack from the back also, the critter is only lookin' one way so, a thief could Sneak up and kill ok, Done (6-7,Shadowfinder) Okay. I dont know if that is very feasible to implement, but im sure hide improvements are in the works.. Okay. on to YBS! Who is still with us! (You have been slain) (6-29,YouvebeenSLAIN) Ok..commenting on the use of thievery skill I have concentrated soley on magic and thieving and while it may be my imagination I have found that my hide spell seems to be more effective the higher my thieving skill got. I was told that a thief could only hide from a person of equal or lower level than he, but I have consistently been able to hide from those with much much higher levels. i.e. can't bee seen by 16th level knight in BG when I am a 11th level thief. Is it my imagination or does th thievery skill effect the hide spell? ga (6-7,Shadowfinder) Fledge will need to check on that. (he is unsure) It is my impression that only magic skill effects hide. Its roughly 2* your magic level .. from what i can tell I could hide from the drake at 10th skill level and could hide from the mama at 11th skill level (magic) and cant find anything new to hide from at 12th skill level (grin) (6-20,Felonious.monk) I found a blue cord in TORII that... IDs as a weapon... what class weapon is it? (6-7,Shadowfinder) Um, im not sure.. ANyone got a one line or less comment on this? I dunno felonious. something worth investigation (6-20,Felonious.monk) thout it might be puzzle (6-7,Shadowfinder) haha, We have just had a comment made.. I have been informed that the GOLD cord is the pagoda puzzle what is the BLUE cord for? (6-5,Silly) all the cords are for the mama katana (6-1,Kanador) as far as i knew..all the cords have only been for the katana puzzle, but i got a plain old yellow one *sniffle* (6-7,Shadowfinder) haha, Okay moreena, sorry you were left hanging so long please share your wisdom (6-23,Moreena) I think it is important for thieves to develop melee combat skills. Relying heavily on Bow can be a mistake because there are cases when only a good sword will work, for example, when there's a gargoyle waiting for you at the bottom of the stairs. Also, a monster that takes 10 minutes to kill with a bow can often be killed in less than half the time with a sword. In BG, I favor a +4 longsword and steel shield. To keep skills up, I swap weapons occasionally. Re: Backstabbing, it should be possible in darkness. ga. (6-7,Shadowfinder) okay articus, your up with a question, then We need to wind this baby down, I want a few minutes.. to talk about tricks etc. (6-39,ARCTICUS) Does NIGHTVISION and DARKNESS work against Drake? ga (6-7,Shadowfinder) yes, you can hide from drake, but nightvision is useless cause the drake can see in darkness. and thieves have NO weapons that can effect BG drake (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) does thief darkness spell work just like the wizard darkness spell?? (6-7,Shadowfinder) yes, except you cannot vary the size (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) im haveing difficulty getting a 1 hex dark spell (6-7,Shadowfinder) you cant .. (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) should be able too! (6-25,Amanda..Morgan) ga (6-7,Shadowfinder) Do to those liberal dukakis supporters at KESMAI not wanting us to be able to do it (grin, sorry, had to get in that little jab Okay... Now, i want to open the floor quickly to all those wanting to share some tricks of the trade with us thief types. I have a few I will mention that will probably be known, (but who knows) 1) It has been my experience that you get more SKILL for an oponent when he is LOOKING at you. I am not sure whether this is true or not, but to be safe, always WARM a darkness spell, run in, give him a second or two to look at you, then cast darkness and kill him. 2) Use the jumpkick command. it has really been improved. 3) A neat little trick for magic skill (once again cant prove this..) Is to get a critter NEAR DEATH with whatever weapon you wish... empty your right hand.. cast darkness in his square run up, and cast MAKERECALL until the MAGIC kills the critter. (with no ring in your hand a concussion spell is generated ) I think it gives you bonus points for critter kill.. okay then, anyone else wish to share their wisdom with us all? (6-5,Silly) ok..a comment on the px and dragon... both ran today after some players had them nd i have never seen this before but they both ran from whatsup and shalifi end of comment (6-12,yoshi) whats px (6-5,Silly) phoenix (6-7,Shadowfinder) Sorry bab, you had a comment? (6-34,Babato) Yes, Just a short one In the Future, I'd like to see a letter writing campaign to KC for thieves. I think someone said before that thieves have to weapon to kill Drake I know that thieves have no weapon to kill Ydmos nor Px (6-7,Shadowfinder) nor the CD nor DAISY (6-34,Babato) True true! I think that if we were organized and showed this to KC in our numbers (6-7,Shadowfinder) or BG elementals or BG bears or who knows what all else (6-34,Babato) they would see that we need to be heard We need a weapon! (6-7,Shadowfinder) okay, a quick one from moreena then to the master thief JELERAK (6-23,Moreena) In the basement of the Kesmai thieves guild are some cases for weapons and pegs for garments. But these are pure decoration; you can't do anything with them. I think it would be nice if you could leave items you don't need there -- a magic dagger or an old suit of troll armor -- with a sign to the effect of "Please take only what you intend to use," and the janitors wouldn't get it. New thief characters could equip themselves. Or, if your guy lost it all on the 4th level, he could borrow some stuff from the guild before going back to recover it. I often throw away -- or sell for a pittance -- things that would be very useful to a new character. ga. (6-7,Shadowfinder) okay jelerak (6-4,Jelerak) i have a bunch of complaints myself! it is bad when a professional thief can steal from a dock baby stealing from players is way too ineffective I also want to be able to PUT things into a player sack! orc urine comes to mind in ag +grin the Kesmai guild need a lot of work where is our set of teleport booths! thief should be able to teleport all over kesmai and then use a recal to come back to the guild area I really do want a poison dagger spell! lots of room left in our spell books for it and a thief need the DISPEL spell at my advanced skill....my portals last way too long now We also need some way of detecting what area is in darkness when under a nightvison spell ga...that is batch 1 (6-2,Shadowfinder) haha, nice. An emergency comment from Babato (6-34,Babato) OK, 2 comments I'd like to c a Bank in the Guild and I'd also like to interest on the $$ in the bank and bein' able to take loans from the bank with (6-4,Jelerak) hell...i wamt to rob banks! (6-34,Babato) collateral. ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) hahaha yes yes yes! Okay silly, your question (6-34,Babato) I was told banks could be robbed by Morph (6-34,Babato) sorry, ga (6-5,Silly) not a question..a comment... first... thieves really do need a decent weapon it's nice to hide and shoot draggy..but.. they need a really good +6 weapon (6-2,Shadowfinder) (and a magic weapon in the BG also) (6-5,Silly) that will kill wraithes, elementals and the like second... they do not need to be able to hide from players AND use that weapon that makes em like the blasted ninjas ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) okay. Well, i totally disagree with you there silly, but then again thats me.. (6-28,Kheldar) not to overstress the need 4 a weapon but... I log in and see my friends and would like to argue with them regarding their habits ... but can *NOT* match their Raxes. done. (6-2,Shadowfinder) Yes, i agree. the thief needs a good magic weapon in the BG and a good hide weapon wherever they are. (6-20,Felonious.monk) ok... I think the katana should be made to glow... it is very effective in AG of course... it might be raised to +4 status and glowing in bg also... I'd like to see a SCOOP command or 6packs at balmseller(g).Done (6-2,Shadowfinder) Okay, i think there were a few comments, but lost my track did anyone else wish to comment? (6-35,Houdini) It would be nice if a BACKSTAB command were made... like the MA's JUMPKICK command but for thieves using daggers. (6-2,Shadowfinder) Interesting idea there houdini.. Okay moreena (6-23,Moreena) I agree with Babato, thieves need better weapons. Also with Jelerak, we need more spells. But I disagree about the bank and the teleports. Thieves are an oppressed minority, that's part of the challenge of playing them. Dodging the sheriff is part of roleplaying a thief. I wouldn't have it any other way. ga. (6-2,Shadowfinder) I agree. I dont mind being opressed as long as their is some balancing factor. But being unable to kill a lot of critters AND being neutral seems a bit unfair anyway, JELERAK, your comments, PLEASE (6-4,Jelerak) Another suggestion for Kesmai...a spell of ALIAS to change a player name for about 20 rounds ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) Okay, looks like you have been slain has a comment (6-29,YouvebeenSLAIN) Ok..quick comment on the karma problem for thieves Am I the only one who thinks that thieves should be able to defend themselves against unprovoked attacsks. I have no problems with getting caught then attacked but to walk around a corner and be greeted by a Raxe from someone I don't know and being unable to do something about it seems a bit much ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) okay, i will reserve comment on that for now. (6-28,Kheldar) to go along with YBS, I would like the capability back.. to makerecall out of people's corpses. done. (6-2,Shadowfinder) !ooh, yes, that was fun I must admit i despise having no course of action agains LAWFUL PAINS but kesmai has deaf ears on that subject currently. (6-35,Houdini) Since thieves ARE masters of illusion and disguise, I think... the ALIAS suggestion sounds good - to mingle with chaotic characters... ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) haha, use your *rat to mingle (and to frighten newbies used to the AG) (6-34,Babato) Ok, I'd like to bring up one solution to this alignment prob. How about Neutral Good No one in this world, I think, is true neutral true neutral means that person makes no judgements If we think about it, we are all Chaotic Chaotic Good We LOVE to fight Lawfuls don't, they just fight to uphold the law I think that all the chars should be chaotic good And all the critters no alingment Are critters really smart enuff to have an alignment? Think about it (6-2,Shadowfinder) Okay, last comment.. Make it a good one JELERAK (6-35,Houdini) They're just malicious. (6-4,Jelerak) one thing i have not seen much of is team thief play (6-34,Babato) Chaotic good character are strong indicidualists marked by a streak (6-4,Jelerak) with nightvision and dark (6-34,Babato) of kindness and benevolence (6-4,Jelerak) several thief types together could be very useful (6-34,Babato) They believ in all the virtues of goodnes and right (6-4,Jelerak) one keeps dark up and others fight in the dark (6-34,Babato) Opps, Sorry, I didn't look up (6-4,Jelerak) think about it !grin ga (6-2,Shadowfinder) Okay. I would personally like to thank FLEDGE for showing up, he seems to have a soft spot in his heart for the thief. Is there any comment you would like to make fledge? (6-37,Fledge) many notes (6-2,Shadowfinder) even on a non professional basis? (6-37,Fledge) we have been thinking about thieves for a while bye all (6-2,Shadowfinder) Thanx for coming and lets do it again BEFORE TWO MORE YEARS PASS!